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Futurist, Jacque Fresco (aged 97) offers solutions for a new way of living

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I'm surprised I couldn't find a thread on The Venus Project, so I thought I'd begin one..

 

Here is a team of people, headed by 97 year old Jacque Fresco, who are working towards finding solutions to creating a better world, for the benefit of all on Earth.  This team are highly focussed on creating something new while criticising the old.  

 

I'll let them speak for themselves...

 

The best place to start is on their kickstarter page.  The main video is an excellent intro to who they are and where they stand with things:  http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/thechoiceisours/the-choice-is-ours-documentary-series  (sorry, I couldn't embed the video, it's an mp4).

 

Interview with Jacque Fresco on RT (bless him): 

 

 

Website: http://www.thevenusproject.com/  

(Has nothing to do with the planet Venus by the way.  Venus is where they live in the U.S.)

 

Solutions solutions solutions... is where our minds should be. 

 

:party:

 

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I think Zeitgeist Movement was picked up in a thread here...sorry if I'm wrong. :huh:

But his vids would be there with Zeitgeist movies, I think. ;)

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3:10 "The central dome will hold the socially integrated computer with it's tentacles way out into the agricultural belt" etc.

 

It sounds like a sci-fi horror movie from the 50's

 

Centralized computing and tentacles will never ever sound inviting and nice to me. Why would a 97 year old guy try to sell his dream with words/concepts like tentacles and socially integrated computers?

 

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"Cybernated complex, the brain and nervous system of the city, working on behalf of all."

 

Sorry Dave...

 

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Personally I don't believe top-down centralized and planned societies like this one to change much but the architechture. Take a look on Brasilia

 

brasilia-10-miles-high.jpg

 

China

 

china.jpg

 

or the thousands of suburbs and high-rise projects developed in post WWII cities designed to bring better living conditions to the working population. All of them ideological expressions wieved from at top-down perspective. Most of them never really succeeded.

 

Ideas of this order and magnitude have a tendency to come out in an unintended fashion, simply because they seem to fail at grasping and holding within them the spontaneous and unpredictable organic processes of social organization.

 

And so, as not to rain on an old mans parade, I say good luck to the Venus Projects.

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Good point LoneStarr, as the saying goes: The road to hell is paved with good intentions.

I like the idea of a cleaner, safer, and more harmonious society but with a central control structure it would be dangerous if old man or offspring decide they enjoy tyranny over the utopian dream they once had. And the ideal world of one is definitely not the same as another..

This is a good learning experience for all, sometimes even the most well intentioned of people and their ideas can be off when put into practice and we must use discernment wisely.

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My point for this thread is to highlight possible solutions for a new way of living, without the need for money and with the freedom to choose to learn whatever it is that interests you.  From my understanding, Fresco's city designs was to decrease the need for transportation and energy consumption.  I am not an engineer so I can't comment on what he has put forth, but when I watched the other videos of his designs, his explanations made sense.  

 

What I like about The Venus Project, is the search for SOLUTIONS.  It may not be the right one, but the ideas are much better than the ones we have now.  The more thinkers who put their energies towards solutions-focussed thinking, the faster the potential of change.

 

Instead of criticising the language used in the vids (even Fresco points out that language is useless and highly misinterpreted) or his designs... please put forth other solutions.

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I'm sorry if I respond in a counter-productive way, but social engineering has already gotten us where we are today. The Venus Project is just another Thomas More's Utopia. And when the missionaries tried that idea in the New World - well, I don't have to tell you.

 

 

Within the confines of the current system free education and a moneyless exchange/rationing system is actually attainable. All it takes is a conscions or coup'd decision - preferably world-wide - to switch to a new world order without soverign nation-states or borders, trade barriers or armies - except maybe a global samaritan organization network in some fashion. Guns or not.

 

Every citizen could get their basic needs covered so as to do as they pleased: enjoy the arts, think, create or work by individual contract, or by assignement from the Hive Mind. All viable occupations depending on your perspective, and all it would take was for somebody to create a movement and eventually momentum against a generations old family based greed driven international autokleptocracy. If successful the movement would eventually corrupt from this newly attained power and people would die in throngs from hunger under a corrupting international order. If the families prevail again whole peoples would die from either violence or taxation in some fashion. Guns or not.

 

Bottom line: People are gonna die from societal change on a global scale.

 

How many people is a reasonable population when everything shortly will be managed and operated by machines anyway? How small a footprint do we limit ourselves to make? No cars, no planes, no oil guzzling ships? No fresh fruits from Africa, or cheap vacations? No electronics? No shit. Enforced by whom? How?

 

Solutions to our problems are legio, and in that I can agree with Jaque Fresco: it requires a new way of thinking - a paradigm shift if you like. I just don't share his fantasy of actually being able to imagine a perfect solution. Solutions evolve from ideas and Jaques has one, yes, but not the only one. And I'll bet he missed something in the end.

 

 

And that is what this thread is all about. Sharing other solutions to our problems.

So lets take a look at some of the problems and their final solutions.

 

Problem no. 1: People

If all people should be allowed to live, procreate and die naturally while the machines worked the land-fills, factories and food-forests, how many would that be? 9.000.000.000? 500.000? And enforced by whom, if any? The solution might just be abstinence or otherwise as prophesied in Huxley's privately educated imagination, or on the Georgia Gudestones.

 

Problem No. 2: Food

Food production can either re-invent itself into technological variants of subsistence farming which would occupy most of the now jobless bureaucrats, or by futher process inhancement of the agricultural sectors with farm towers and synthesized nutrients. As long as cheap oil still comes out of the ground chemical fertilizers can keep feeding the world population thanks to the Green Revolution of the sixties funded by the Rockefeller Institute by proxy of Norman Borlaug. It appears humans are also consuming oil as food. No oil for fertilizers = people will die. The no-oil solution seems to be hard handi-work or massive depopulation.

 

Problem no. 3: Energy

As long as cheap oil still comes out of the ground together with other fuels you just have to pick up and burn, alternatives will take some time in the making. Free energy would most definitely require a paradigm shift away from "free"-market capitalism.

 

Problem No. 4: Idleness

You know what they say about idle hands, and workers need purpose. With the machines doing the dumb, dirty and dangerous work what's left for the humans to do besides mechanics and engineering - or will there only be real and awakened humans capable of autopoiesis in that future?

 

 

How many Venus Projects would it take to farm 9.000.000.000 people? How many resources would be needed to construct it? There are already around 500 cities in the world with over 1.000.000 inhabitants. We just need 8.500 more of those to house the projected 2050 world population.

 

The Venus Project is a castle in the sky reachable only from atop a huge pile of bodies from decommissioned and unskilled labourers, bureaucrats and business-men, no longer attractive human resources. But that might just be someone elses fantasy. What else would you need a seed vault for?

 

There are some serious battle plans lying in safes and file cabinets around the bureaucratic world concerning how to handle emergency situations, but none of them hold a serious solution to the population problem except death in all of it's guises. So that seems to be the over-all solution. No oil, no fertilizer, no food, no people performing puposeless tasks. Or a highly controlled meticulously managed social order consisting of select individuals in a resource based economy. Both scenarios involve massive human die-off.

 

Or skip to 4:40 and wait for 6:33

 

 

Nature will eventually apply a proper solution to all of our problems. Sorry if I sound gloomy or negative but this, as I see it, is the conundrum: How to claim stewardship of ourselves and keep our humanity at the same time. So far the solution lies on the other side of a lot of death.

 

Sorry again. I don't mean to hijack the thread. I just feel very passionately about this particular subject because the denial of our oil dependency is so heavy and all of our solutions tend to be technical and energy consuming, including fertilizer and hydroponics and synthetic beef.

 

Rant over.

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I remember hearing a talk on the radio several years ago, I can't remember the names or the show tho, pity...

 

The chap being interviewed was an Indian town planner/sociologist, working in the USA. He was contracted by some developers to 'prove' that the slums in Mumbi (I think it was) had to be demolished, so they could put up 'efficient' housing, first for the Commonwealth Games, and then to re-sell it again to families.

 

After a fair bit of study, he gave up the assignment and went in to support the slum dwellers, and also produced a book and several papers showing just how a chaos-style design works, and how it is so much more efficient.

 

We only have to look at the 'estate' style planning, gated communities, fractured families, high crime, anti-social behaviour, massive transport and commute costs, the list goes on.

 

In the 'chaos' design, the family lives above the factory, which is above the shop - everyone knows everyone else, most services are either in the same block, or at least close walking distance, crime is far lower, much lower transport and no commute problems - the list went on..

 

Maybe someone here can fill in the gaps on the book and author...

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Hey LoneStarr,  Rant away!!  This is the place for it after all.  I know you're not firing at me.

 

Well, it was Fresco's vision, not mine.  I respect what he's done.  He's obviously put a lot of work (decades) into his visions and designs.  There are some nice ideas to ponder and he believes in human potential.  I sometimes wonder if we are so blind by our current ways that we can't see beyond that what we are living now.  We've never lived in a moneyless society, so how do we really know what that would be like?  We can't.  There's nothing wrong with dreaming about what it's like.

 

Anyway, I thought the ebook, 'Designing The Future' was pretty good food for thought.  I haven't come across any other visionary ideas since (I'm sure they're out there).  

 

This thread was to prompt other ideas to come forward.  I should have thought about the title a bit more and called it "Solutions for a new way of living", but alas, was very tired when I started this last night (sorry).

 

Bring on more ideas...solutions... please... they will be interesting, or have I just gone into a territory I should not tread??

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Alright.

 

Quite a few people in the industrialized world have turned their back on main-stream consumerism. Their reasons differ but they all find common ground in the ecological village with varying degrees of collectivity. The philosophy is too minimize the human foot-print while retaining cultural qualities and a high degree of independence by self-sustainability. To call the eco-village a solution would likely be going too far, but they migt be a crucial step in the right direction when you look at the degree of experimentation and innovation going on. New building materials as well as techniques have been developed or rather discovered together with healthier and more nutritious living from home-grown pesticide free hand tilled agriculture.

 

Below are a couple of links to homepages of some of these eco-villages. The pages are in Danish but the pictures speak their own language. They have a lot, and maybe you're savvy enough to translate the pages on the go.

 

http://www.dyssekilde.dk/

http://selvforsyning.dk/wordpress/

 

The original idea behind the eco-village was to create a vegetarian, spiritual and human community. In the initial phases the ideological foundation of the village shifted several times and have now come to rest in a position based more on attitudes and values ​​than on actual concrete beliefs.
The village consists of very different people with very different backgrounds and reasons to get involved, and yet they are bound together by common values ​​such as ecology, sustainability, social community, respect and tolerance.

<translated from http://www.dyssekilde.dk/samfundet)

 

I know of several such places all over the world and while they do contribute to the gathering of new or lost knowledge they will hardly solve the problems of post #6 - but they sure look like nice places to live.

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Thank you, thank you for your post!  I was actually thinking about the Kin's domains (written in the Anastasia: Ringing Cedar series) while drifting off to sleep last night... and now I see you've posted this..  :)   Will check it out and think some more.  That is why I'm here.

 

Another thing I was dreaming about, is growing houses, like in Co-Evolution.  Now that would be something!   8)

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Thank you, thank you for your post!  I was actually thinking about the Kin's domains (written in the Anastasia: Ringing Cedar series) while drifting off to sleep last night... and now I see you've posted this..  :)   Will check it out and think some more.  That is why I'm here.

 

Another thing I was dreaming about, is growing houses, like in Co-Evolution.  Now that would be something!   8)

 

Where I am, I have 'visioned' a place of Kin, and if I am to build here (we keep getting delayed), the plans allow for expansion to a large 'cluster' set of dwellings, which are legal if done right (oh, and totally off-grid)

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Where I am, I have 'visioned' a place of Kin, and if I am to build here (we keep getting delayed), the plans allow for expansion to a large 'cluster' set of dwellings, which are legal if done right (oh, and totally off-grid)

 

I haven't heard much about the Kins Domains that were set up, probably because they're not on the internet!!  

 

As for your project, please keep us updated with this vision of yours.  I wish you every success with its implementation !!  Totally off-grid too, awesome! :)

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and i thought geez isn't that what the illusion of empowerment is? 


when company's are shut down or bankrupt 


the door is only locked 


the equipment dosn't have a meaning we give that meaning 


things go obsolete things go array 


replacements renewals all that sort of thing 


but bankrupt is really a misconception of how things evolve or disolve or decay


a full functioning bankrupt company is just a tool like everything else 


it is like saying can your computer go bankrupt? 


and turn it off 


i know there is a lot of agreement and deals but i think thats how things go awry


in our planet 


or is it?

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Hi there P's,

 

I often like your writings, but the above has me baffled.  Are you referring to anything specific on this thread?  

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